Even With Backups, How Long Are You Down?

Anklebuster · #1 (**permalink**) 11-20-2009, 02:49 AM

As a mobile-only laptop user, I rely heavily on my USB key.
My clients' websites along with their server information are the most important things on there.
Of course, my personal websites and financial information are stored, too.

Two days ago, the key went totally flaky, disconnecting after copying any large number of files.
It's a SanDisk Cruzer 8GB and I never even got to fill it up!

I finally went out and bought a new USB key, a SanDisk GigaWare 4GB, $12 from Radio Shack.
Most of the important stuff was backed up onto the laptop;
however, to be absolutely certain that the key was synched with the Laptop,
I spent 8 hours connecting and reconnecting the blasted key until the job was done.
Because of my work, some backups are obsolete within days.
The fastest way for me to find newer files is to use a comparison program like Beyond Compare 2.

Then, TODAY, I realized that I didn't have all my RoboForm folders synched.
For instance, I couldn't find the password for Website Babble (horrors!)
See, my main backup is a single folder containing all project folders and other categories.
RoboForm is not within that single folder, but I have a second backup task for that one.
Unfortunately, I forgot to copy the rest of the support folders for RoboForm.
The good news is, I had taken advantage of their free download of GoodSync and was able to resynch from their servers.

All in all, the transfer to the new USB key went smoothly.
It could have gone better if I had bothered to dump the entire Key to the laptop, periodically.
That only works if I don't update projects daily.
Otherwise, I'm better off with an incremental backup system.

I've written extensively about backup processes on HubPages.
(I can't link to it because I have an affiliate link for RoboForm there, but you can search Hubpages for Mitchell Allen

.)

If you don't have a backup plan, your computer will make one for you and you won't like it.

Do you have any backup stories to share?

Cheers,

Mitch

Bill the Builder · #2 (**permalink**) 11-20-2009, 08:59 AM

I have a construction company and we have multiple computer backups as well as bi weekly off site back ups.

Flash drives are -not- recommended for important backups as they can have problems so easy. They should primarily be used for data transfer. The best is a hard drive backup. Don't drop it though.

Personally. I use a combination of both flash drive and hard drive back up. Redundant backups for backups is cheap insurance.

TechieGuy · #3 (**permalink**) 11-20-2009, 10:51 AM

I have a backup plan that I use for all my personal digital photos. I don't really have much else, in terms of data, to worry about.

I always backup my data onto an external hard drive. From there it gets backed up online so I now have two copies. I am looking at purchasing two portable hard drives which will also contain two more copies of my data. From there I will then move each hard drive to a separate, offsite location.

This setup will allow me to quickly restore small amounts of data form my online source, or for full backups, I can then retrieve one of the hard drives and then do a complete restore.

One of the most important points is to always make several copies of your data, as Bill mentioned.

Melva · #4 (**permalink**) 11-20-2009, 11:16 AM

I have been thinking about becoming coming a completely wireless card user. Will this mean I will have slow connection to the web and other servers through the wireless card? I understand the need to use a USB key for my documents I do that now. Thank you for any advice.

Anklebuster · #5 (**permalink**) 11-20-2009, 02:04 PM

Hey there! thanks for your comments!

@Bill the Builder, I have an external hard drive, too. Here is my opinion on them:
the new breed are supposedly rife with reliability issues, though I personally haven't used one. The external lashup I have is based on an internal 80GB HD housed in on of those $30 enclosures that allow you to access the drive via USB.

Whether you use old-style or new, you're still dealing with a mechanical device.

As for your comments about flash, I am learning that this is indeed the case. My dilemma is that I have too much data for a CD-R. I could try writable DV-R but, until recently, I have been lulled by the seemingly stable USB keys and abundant laptop storage.

@TechieGuy, as I just mentioned to Bill, I don't put much stock in external hard drives. That said, I do have a ton of old backups that exist on the external hard drive. Every byte also exists on dusty CD-Rs, which are safely stored off-site. I use my cataloging program to track down the most convenient copy.

The problem now is that I am losing faith in these blasted keys. I am aware of something called cycle limits. I ignored it at first, because Ii was only using the key for backups. Now, I am using portable apps and the key gets quite a daily workout.

Here are the questions:
1. is this marketing hype?
2. is it applicable to cheap flash, only?
3. is this limitation acceptable for the cost per gigabyte?

Here is a forum thread discussing #1:
http://forum.eeeuser.com/viewtopic.php?pid=23830#p23830

As for question #2, SanDisk seems to last forever. My problem actually stems from a mechanical problem: the latching mechanism just seems to wear out! It happened with my 512KB Titanium Cruzer and the 8GB Cruzer. This time, I opted for a different SanDisk design, the Gigaware 4GB, which has a sliding cover. I gave the kids my Titanium. we put one of those one-way plastic ties one it to keep the plug exposed. Works fine

The cost per GB is prohibitive. at $3 per GB, the GigaWare is cheaper than any of my previously purchased keys, but can't touch the sub-dollar per GB costs for an internal hard drive. (I didn't compare it to the new breed of external hard drives, though.)
Is this acceptable? To me, it's like going out for dinner. You know for a fact that you're getting ripped off on the food, but you're alo paying for ambience and a good time.

@Melva, the wireless card is a horse of a different color. All I can tell you is that I am happy with our Sprint wireless plan, 59.00 month.
Do consider other backup options, too. I am beginning to distrust the USB key for long-term backup.

Cheers,

Mitch

joe kuth · #6 (**permalink**) 11-23-2009, 06:58 PM

Begin Data Dump //
I wish I was a better communicator... (I have trouble communicating thoughts..) working on it so please forgive the babble... My thoughts don't always organize themselves very well...

I think it's important to look at the entire picture. Not just backups. But why are you backing up.? Is it so that if your system fails you can get back in business quickly? Is it so you don't loose that picture or video clip that can't be replaced.

Business Continuity Plans... need to be created/tested/and maintained at a regular interval.

Everyone should look at some of VMWares tools for creating a virtual snapshot of your existing system that would allow you to get back up and running very quickly. (and they are free). (I would insert link here to the resource... but Im new to the forum and don't know all the rules??) If you system bytes the bucket for any reason ... you can take your virtual machine to almost any computer and ... your back in business...

IF your just backing up data: then there are different questions:
Why are you backing up the data. What would happen if the data fell into the wrong hands? Is the data static (pictures/ music / movie files).. or .. changing pretty frequently. How many versions of the data do you need.

You could also look into a hosted sharepoint solution. You could then store your data in the cloud ... access it anytime from anywhere... and (the provider would backup the data for you ... with hopefully (world class backup systems like tivoli)

(I think the OS google chrome)... will basically store all your data in the cloud... and self heal the OS every time you connect. (but requires an internet connection).

End of Process (memory dump complete)... partial data loss may have occured {my sad attempt at humor}

Anklebuster · #7 (**permalink**) 11-23-2009, 07:25 PM

Hi jkuth,

I totally agree that we have to evaluate the reasons for backing up files. You make good points about the questions to ask.

While I am open to the suggestion of checking out VMWare, you should know that not everyone has the patience to ride that learning curve.

Back in the Win98 days, when the entire operating system could fit on a writable CD-R, I was a huge fan of Norton Ghost. The concept of disk imaging is still viable today, however, we need a massive hard drive to accomplish the same thing.

I think sharepoint and other "cloud" services, like mozy, can satisfy a niche. As long as they provide solutions that match the backup requirements, and don't suddenly go off-line, they are good candidates.

The last point you made in your "memory Dump" is spot on.
Do you remember the ROM operating systems stored on the first personal computers?
I wish we could devote some resources to building a ROM (Read-Only Memory) operating system. Commodore 64 had a nice system that copied the OS in your RAM and then allowed you to "hook" into it to customize it, the same way that WordPress allows you to hook into its software. The main benefit, as you stated, is a self-healing OS: just reboot! (Doh!)

Cheers,

Mitch

joe kuth · #8 (**permalink**) 11-23-2009, 09:09 PM

I have been thinking about becoming coming a completely wireless card user. Will this mean I will have slow connection to the web and other servers through the wireless card?

Your wireless speed will depend on the type of wireless network you connect to. (So depending on where your at .. you may have very good speed ... or so so speed). Also check your carriers monthly bandwidth limit. (It's not unlimited..... so if you use it enough you might have an issue towards the end of your bill cycle?)

TechieGuy · #9 (**permalink**) 11-23-2009, 09:20 PM

I was looking at USB flash drives, but decided against it for a number of reasons:

1. The drives aren't large enough for all of my data. I currently backup almost 200GB of data, and it grows rather quickly (digital photos).

2. The cost/GB is astronomical compared to portable hard drives. Plus, while hard drives do have moving parts, you know the quality you will get from companies such as Western Digital or Seagate. Like everything else, if you take care of it, it should last.

While I do like the small size of a USB flash drive, I don't think there is enough data out there for longevity, it is really hard to determine if the flash memory is good.

Anklebuster · #10 (**permalink**) 11-24-2009, 05:25 AM

Hi TechieGuy,

When you say you currently backup almost 200 GB of data, is that per session or cumulatively?

If it is cumulative, would a DVD-R library be out of the question? I'm thinking about the permanence of the data vis-a-vis a catastrophic backup hard drive failure. Failure comes in all forms, even if the quality is good: an electrical anomaly, physical mishap, theft or malicious tampering.

If it is not cumulative, oh well

Here is an interesting discussion about the declining relevance of cost per unit of storage:

http://blogs.netapp.com/efficiency/2...-cost-per.html

Although the author makes a compelling argument on the surface, I disagree with him on two points. First, he is comparing apples to oranges (storage capacity vs. storage efficiency). Second, regardless of efficiency, there are theoretical limits to the amount of actual storage capacity. Therefore, by computing these limits for each medium, we still can compare them by cost.

What's your take?

Cheers,

Mitch

TechieGuy · #11 (**permalink**) 11-24-2009, 07:23 AM

I read the article, and found it to be an interesting read. There are many options for backing up data:

1. External hard drives.
2. DVD-/+R discs.
3. USB flash drives and flash memory cards.
4. Online storage.

While his article explains that cost per GB is pretty much obsolete, for consumers it is very much a reality. Let's look at my data, for example. My data is 200GB cumulative, which increase several gigabytes on a monthly basis. If you have young children you can understand why.

I recently bought a 2TB hard drive to hold my data, and use an online backup provider to keep two copies. I would like to also keep my data on something more local as well. That something must also be portable that I can easily move from place to place. Three options are available:

1. Portable hard drive.
2. USB flash drive and memory.
3. DVD-R/+R.

Unfortunately, the DVD option will require too many discs. About 42 discs for my data, and double that for the redundancy (duplicate).

While the USB flash drive and memory looks like a promising alternative. They are expensive. As of this post, the 32GB flash memory retails for about $110, and I will need about 7 for my data so I'm look at $770 for one set without any redundancy. For USB flash drives I can get 64GB for about $200-300 or 128GB for $400-500.

I can easily find a 500GB portable hard drive for less than $150, so two will be under $300. This can easily backup all my data at the moment and for years to come.

The question, do I want to spend $700 or more for the same amount of space as $300 by using a portable hard drive? While the article was interesting, the author must keep in mind that we don't have the financial capabilities as a corporation. We have much smaller budgets and must get the most bang for our buck.

Anklebuster · #12 (**permalink**) 11-24-2009, 08:03 AM

Hi TechGuy,

Yep, I have a boatload of kids and pictures to match

Here is another alternative: Buy an internal hard drive and house it in one of those USB drive kits.
I googled Seagate internal drives just to see what the price range was. You can get a 500GB Seagate Barracuda for less than $100. A drive kit cost me $30 at WalMart.
You can go redundant all day for that price!

42 DVD-Rs will fit in a CaseLogic folder easily.

Are you at all concerned about media obsolescence? I hate that I invested so much into Iomega ZIP disks, for example. You have to waste a bay for the reader, at least long enough to convert all the disks to CD-R or something

Cheers,

Mitch

TechieGuy · #13 (**permalink**) 11-24-2009, 10:49 AM

I was looking at the internal hard drives, and then using a USB drive kit. I did that with my wife's laptop hard drive when I upgraded from 160GB to 500Gb.

Storing the 42 DVDs isn't the problem, having the time to burn them all is the issue. It would be easier to just perform a copy from one drive to another, and even use a sync tool to keep them synchronized. This way I can just plug in another hard drive, and schedule a sync at night so it will be done for the morning.

I'm not too concerned with obsolescence. Mainly because technology, such as DVD, won't disappear overnight. It will usually take some time before they are gone, and by then I probably would have upgraded anyway.

Anklebuster · #14 (**permalink**) 11-25-2009, 04:43 AM

Sounds like you have thoroughly covered all the bases.
I have found that a mix of technologies and backup schemes tend to work better than a single plan of action.

Cheers,

Mitch

joe kuth · #15 (**permalink**) 11-25-2009, 04:04 PM

If you have more than one computer networked together... you could use robocopy or similar utility ... to backup data from one computer to another over your home network. robocopy has a switch that will tell it to only copy files that change... so you get incrementals. you can use windows schedule service to do this everyday at a particular time. If there is interest ... I can post the commands needed to do this.

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