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I was in a forum the other day where these SEOers were arguing about keyword density and number of links.
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I don't even bother going to these forums anymore. Most of the people on these forums are just there in hopes that someone will give the magic formula to get site #1 in google.
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I sensed that /something/ was changing with Google
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It makes sense that websites that are valuable to the visitors should be credited with higher ranks not the ones which use black-hat or white-hat techniques to fool the search engine.